Friends, I got 35 responses to the Global Warming posting, which is I think a new record. Many thanks for your contributions. Many were similar, so I'll be posting representative examples. The consensus re/the science was that the documentary was bogus. Some disagreed however, and they raised other points that may turn out to be more important than the science, as regards understanding what's going on politically. Those will be covered in an accompanying posting. rkm -------------------------------------------------------- To: Richard Moore <•••@••.•••> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:34:17 -0700 Subject: Response to Swindled From: •••@••.••• Richard, why do you even lend credence to this crap by passing it around? You should know better. The so-called "documentary" has been debunked by the scientists interviewed as a piece of sensationalistic crap over a week ago. <http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=417> Far from being a professional piece of investigative journalism, it was a polemic that was one-sided, anti-educational, and misleading. As Carl Wunsch said in his rebuttal, "it never occurred to me that I was dealing with people who already had a reputation for distortion and exaggeration." There's hardly a factual piece of information in it, and those few that are, such as "the sun drives weather systems", are taken so far out of context as to be meaningless. Are are you doing research on people's gullibility in believing anything that allows them to cling to the fantasy that they can continue consuming and polluting without disastrous consequences? Or did you forget to take your red pill this week? :-) For the Earth... _dave_(this entire message is composed of recycled electrons) Natural Systems Solutions http://www.attractionretreat.org/NSS Sustainable lifestyles, organizations, and communities ----------------- Hi Dave, Thanks for your comments. Your views are representative of the most of the feedback I received. No, I wasn't testing people's gullibility. The documentary SEEMED to make some very challenging points, and I wanted to find out what other people thought of it. I'm no expert on climate. I do not try to coddle people on this list by protecting them from viewpoints. I assume everyone here can think for themselves. I find the discussion and thinking that has evolved from the posting to be valuable. And it is useful to track disinformation campaigns. cheers, rkm -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 06:03:45 +1200 From: "James Samuel" <•••@••.•••> To: •••@••.••• Subject: Re: Is global warming a hoax? Hi Richard, Like many of the reports that deal with climate change issues, the tendency to emotive language and a bias towards one or another viewpoint is also prevalent in this film. There is a criticism, both subtle and obvious, of people who question the logic of economic growth, globalisation and capitalism. There is the use of simplistic analogies, an approach which is criticized when used by those who believe that human beings have a major impact on climate change. It seems clear that the world has gone through major climatic cycles in the past, and to argue for or against the influence of human beings on this process seems more about an argument for or against the status quo and further industrialisation of the world. I sensed an intention in this film to suggest that human beings a small insignificant peons who don't (or can't) influence change. This is not a new form of propaganda, and it is one that works well for those who know they are not powerless but who want to maintain the status quo. At individual levels it is hard to see what effect we have, but we are not only individuals, we are part of a whole, a thing called the human family, which together makes huge changes. Together we have cut down 40% of the Amazon rain forest, and this is having profound effects on our weather/climate system. There are lots of examples and most of you will be able to cite a few more. After observing an initial reaction in myself, I was willing to open up to the information. I watched it and have come to the conclusion that there is some truth in it, and a lot of misinformation. If you want further reading around this one, here are some links: http://www.desmogblog.com/a-global-warming-swindle-play-by-play http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/climate_change/article2355956.ece http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/climate_change/article23559 http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/tm_headline=debunking-of-global-warming--bad-science-&method=full&objectid=18749397&siteid=50082-name_page.html http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6031514559084805348 James Samuel <http://www.ydaysfuture.blogspot.com> ----------------- Hi James, Thanks for the links. Here some additional ones that people sent in: <http://environment.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,,2032572,00.html>http://environment.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,,2032572,00.html http://www.medialens.org/alerts/07/0313pure_propaganda_the.php http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/denialmachine/ http://www.globalissues.org/EnvIssues/GlobalWarming/media.asp http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2007/03/13/channel-4s-problem-with-science/ http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/swindled/ http://www.jri.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=137&Itemid=83 http://www.royalsoc.ac.uk/page.asp?id=4761 http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2007/3/6/8814/25388 http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/climate_change/article2326210.ece http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2026124,00.html http://environment.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,,1875762,00.html http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/swindled/#more-414 http://green.itweek.co.uk/2007/03/what_firms_shou.html cheers, rkm -------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Tesler <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: Is global warming a hoax? Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:32:26 -0700 To: "Richard K. Moore" <•••@••.•••> Richard, it is true that warming causes CO2 to be released into the atmosphere. One reason is that permafrost melts and organic material therein decomposes and releases CO2, with a lag as those scientists reported. But it also works the other way around. More greenhouse gases (and CO2 is but one of them) cause warming. These relationships are not simple, and they are imposed on natural cycles that can be hard to sort out. But the overall effect of burning fossil fuel and raising livestock (methane) the last two centuries has been significant warming of the Polar regions with recent acceleration to record temperatures. Anyone who thinks that global warming is not a threat to the earth should write their book while lounging on a yacht in the Arctic Ocean, in waters that for several millennia have been ice. Larry -------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tony Troughton-Smith" <•••@••.•••> To: "'Richard Moore'" <•••@••.•••> Subject: RE: Is global warming a hoax? Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:22:43 +0900 Yes, I've seen it, Richard. I believe those warning about the potential impacts of climate change in fact mostly have very little to gain from so doing - there is certainly no cashed-up lobby group which might be interested in promoting a move AWAY from fossil fuels &/or nuclear energy, whereas the converse is demonstrably true. I'm surprised you don't see this for what it really is: another dirty tricks campaign from the very mob who have been honing their propaganda skills since the early days of the 20th Century or before (as I seem to remember you touched on in Escaping the Matrix, but can't now check as my five copies have all been passed on long since). To imagine the bulk of the scientific community engaged in a conspiracy to frighten the world for the sake of it (or even to ensure their research grants are renewed) simply beggars belief - mine at least. The pathologically greedy global banksters, on the other hand, along with their rapture-anticipating buddies, will probably be quite happy for the place to burn provided they've got all the loot by the time it happens. Unfortunately there are a large number of people who will seize the opportunity this presents to carry on as normal and pay no heed to further warnings as a consequence of seeing this film. And our kids generation may suffer more as a result. Tony ------ Hi Tony, Yes, the documentary seems to be a 'dirty tricks', but no, I don't think it will have any significant negative effect. Indeed the media response prompted by the documentary, as we can see from all the links above, will probably make for a net positive effect! Just as me mentioning the documentary on the list will probably result in people here being even more convinced of the threat of global warming. But still more important is that 'responding to global warming' has now gone mainstream, ala Gore. As propaganda, the documentary has passed its sell-by date. More about this in the next posting. cheers rkm -- -------------------------------------------------------- Escaping the Matrix website http://escapingthematrix.org/ cyberjournal website http://cyberjournal.org Community Democracy Framework: http://cyberjournal.org/DemocracyFramework.html subscribe cyberjournal list mailto:•••@••.••• Posting archives http://cyberjournal.org/show_archives/
