----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 20:03:12 +0300
From: leonidas paparizos <•••@••.•••>
To: •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: rn- re: Hans Sinn - Why are Germans so interested in seeing
Yugoslavia disintegrate?
I enjoy your forum very much but I still do not understand a simple question.
The history of the 20th century was plain and simple: "You play it the
macho guy, you loose it". I can mention Austrian-Ungarian Emperium,
Nazi-Germany, Colonial U.K., etc.
Why do you always take the position that this New World Order is going to
last ?
Leo
(my personal opinion is that in less than a year is going to be defeated
and you
will see it done)
---------------
Dear Leonidas,
They say everything passes, and so will the New World Order... and so will
humanity... eventually. But some things last a long time, and nothing goes
away unless something makes it go away, or "defeats" it, as you put it.
The British Empire lasted centuries; if the NWO lasts that long we're in
deep shit. Nazi Germany only lasted about a decade, but it took the
combined forces of much of the world to defeat it - it was quite stable
internally. Who is there left to challenge the NWO?
To find a precedent for the NWO, we need to go back, I suggest, to the
Roman Empire, which lasted many centuries. It was so strong in its part of
the world, and so well organized, that it was essentially invincible until
its own internal degeneration was well advanced. Like Rome, once the NWO
takes firm root, there aren't any outside powers that can threaten it. The
NWO is a ruthless regime, growing more similar to Nazi Germany every day,
and even more skilled in propaganda and social management. We can't count
on its own internal degeneration to save us antyime soon.
Marxists cling to antique analyses which claim capitalism will die of its
own contradictions, but that represents an incomplete understanding of
capitalism. Capitalism is a system of elite rule first, and a doctrine of
free-market economics second. When the shaekout phase of global capitalism
is complete, and all wealth and trade is controlled by a handful of TNC's,
the economic rules will be changed as necessary to preserve the established
power elites. We can't count on Marx to save us either.
For some time I've been saying that the only thing that can save us is a
massive grass-roots movement - and in that time I've seen no evidence, nor
any creative proposals, to the contrary, at least not that stood up to
analysis.
Such a movement would be a major collective endeavor and, like any
endeavor, must have a clear understanding of what it's trying to accomplish
and what are the obstacles in its path. Underestimating the strength and
perseverance of the adversary would be a fatal way to start such a movement.
If you have some idea of exactly how this giant steamroller might be
stopped in less than a year, please let us all know.
rkm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Steve Tomljenovic <•••@••.•••>
To: •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: rn- re: Hans Sinn - Why are Germans so interested in seeing
Yugoslavia disintegrate?
rkm wrote:
In Yugoslavia, from the perspective of Germany and the US,
I'd say it's pretty clear we're dealing with a type-3
scenario: split Yugoslavia into manageable pieces, make sure
they're in conflict with one another, and bomb the economic
infrastructure back to the stone age. In all, it's an
effective master plan for reducing Yugoslavia, effectively,
to colonial status - subject to Western domination, a market
for Western goods, and no longer a competitor in
international markets, as it was until recently, for
example, in automobile production.
No offense, but I disagree with this analysis. Yugoslavia disintegrated
because it was never meant to be a country in the first place. If you
asked "Yugoslavs" in the 1950's or 60's if the country would disintegrate
after Tito died, I'm sure the vast majority would have said yes.
Also, it should be noted that the Western powers worked to preserve
Yugoslavia originally by giving the Serbs the green light to use force.
But when these efforts failed, and the Serbian atrocities became too much
of a PR liability, the West had to rethink it's strategy.
--------------
Dear Steve,
No offense taken.
Perhaps Yugoslavia would have broken up under its own steam, even if it
wasn't molested from the outside. But that's not really relevant to the
analysis. It is "from the perspective of Germany and the US" that I would
interpret it as a "type-3 scenario". If Yugoslavia was already prone to
instability, then that just made the job easier for outside agitators. If
Yugoslavia would have stayed together otherwise, then that only makes the
crime of intervention all the more heinous.
How can you be so sure "the Western powers worked to preserve Yugoslavia
originally"? Are you going by their rhetoric? Do you think they would
announce "We've decided to help Serbia so we can destabilize the region",
if that was their strategy? Of course they issue whatever PR story they
think will go over best at each stage of their operation. Did you catch
the piece Jan posted on the ninth of this month?...
US admits Sudan bombing mistake
The Independent(U.K.)
5/4/99 Andrew Marshall in Washington
In an admission that last year's missile attack on a factory
in Sudan was a mistake, the US has cleared the man who owned
the plant of any links to terrorism.
I don't know if this was carried in the US, but even if it was on the back
pages somewhere, it probably went unnoticed during the current NATO crisis.
Time after time, we learn years later (sometimes sooner) that we were being
fed lies; why do we keep giving them the beneifit of the doubt regarding
current events?
The fact that the US gave the Serbs a green light to use force is not proof
of what their strategy was, and neither were their announced reasons. A
destabilization motive fits their overall pattern of actions much better,
and is consistent with the whole thrust of US and NWO global policy, which
is everywhere destabilization, destabilization and more destabilization...
from Rwanda, to Russia, to Eastern Europe, to Southeast Asia, to Western
society itself.
rkm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
========================================================================
an activist discussion forum - •••@••.•••
To subscribe, send any message to
•••@••.•••
A public service of Citizens for a Democratic Renaissance
(mailto:•••@••.••• http://cyberjournal.org)
Help create the Movement for a Democratic Rensaissance
To review renaissance-network archives, send any message to:
•••@••.•••
To subscribe to the the cj list, which is a larger list
and a more general political discussion, send any message to:
•••@••.•••
A community will evolve only when
the people control their means of communication.
-- Frantz Fanon
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful
committed citizens can change the world,
indeed it's the only thing that ever has.
- Margaret Mead
