Dear RN, There has been some interesting discussion off the RN list and on, following the posting of Carolyn Ballard's articles on the death penalty. I would like to share it with you because I think it demonstrates very eloquently just how the right/left, Christian/non-Christian oppositions and other things that divide people are divisions we can and do manage to surmount. all the best, Jan ************************************************************* From: "Carolyn Ballard" <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: re: death penalty article Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 12:10:32 -0800 Dear Jan & Ed- I read with great sadness Ed's reaction to my article on the death penalty. What is so sad is that everything Ed says is true. As a "believer," (I have ceased calling myself a Christian a long time ago for the very reason that this label turns many, such as Ed, off) it pierces my heart to know that the message of love, hope, forgiveness and redemption which Jesus brought to a hurting world has been so miserably twisted and misused for the insidious ends/agendas of some. Oddly enough, most of what Jesus taught are the same lessons taught 2000 years later by Gandhi, yet we have not seen this same evil manipulation of Gandhi's philosophy by his followers to my knowledge. I think the key is that Gandhi did not aspire to found another "religion;" he merely attempted to reveal the beauty of Truth and the joys of a life lived in accordance with Truth. However, contrary to what most Christians believe, Jesus did not come to found another religion either. He, like Gandhi, came to reveal the universal Truth of God's love for humankind and the joy of a life renewed by that Truth. Christians in general have failed miserably to understand that. It was established religion which persecuted and eventually killed Jesus. It should be remembered that the only harsh, condemning words which Jesus had for anyone were the moneychangers in the temple and the religious leaders, when he pronounced the "seven woes" upon them. Yes, I understand completely Ed's attitudes towards Christianity. It is abhorent to me that he and his family suffered so at the hands of those who would purport to act "in the name of Christ." But recalling the words of Jesus as he hung dying on a Roman cross, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do," I am also reminded of Desmond Tutu's exhortation to South Africa when he said that forgiveness and reconciliation was the only hope for healing the great wounds of its past. These are extremely difficult concepts to accept for those who have been so brutalized by evil and injustice, yet I am convinced that, as Tutu said, it is the only path to wholeness and closure for the victims. Indeed, as Jesus said, it is easy to love one's friends, and far more difficult to love one's enemies. Yet, that is the imperative of the Law of Love. And as far as I can see, Love is the only thing which will save humankind from itself -- forgiving, unconditional, always hoping, ever believing, non self-seeking Love. Knowledge alone will not save us. History is replete with the evil actions of intelligent men. Everything good, everything noble in Creation springs from the eternal truth of Love. That was the message of both Gandhi and Jesus. In peace, Carolyn *********************************************************** Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 09:28:16 -0800 To: •••@••.••• (Jan Slakov) From: Ed Deak <•••@••.•••> Subject: re: REform/CRAPP articles Dear Jan, I grew up as a fascist, some of my best friends have been fascists, nazis, communists and now Reform. Most of them hard working, decent and well meaning people, not the commonly believed bloodthirsty crazy types. Something clicks in people's heads and logic stops. It has always been so and may remain so. When I first saw my Mother after 29 years and she started on the Jews I stopped her and told her that in my house we don't talk like that. She was shocked and asked my wife later: "When did Ed turn into a Jew lover?" Poor lady, she sure screwed up her life with some of her ideas, but there was no way to explain things to her. For her the aristocracy and royalty were ruling by God's will and so on....... This is Reform country and most of our friends and neighbours are strong supporters. The most reliable people we can count on for help are Reform federally, BC Liberals, anti-environmentalists and anti any form of government. They know who I am and what I stand for, I've been writing in the local papers for years, the Post Office knows that I'm NPD from the mail I receive, but it doesn't make any difference to our standing in society and friendship with others. We just don't talk politics. Keep on smiling, cheers, Ed. ============================================================================ ========== At 12:20 PM 03/02/2000 -0400, Jan Slakov wrote: >Dear Ed, > >I just wanted you to know that JAnet sent me a copy of the REform/Crapp >thing you sent and then I sent it out to one of my lists and also to some >friends as it was so good. (Actually, I have a brother who was a member of >REform for a long time. He is a good person basically, but wanted the >deficit cut very badly. To my mind, cutting the deficit is a good idea, but >there are other deficits that need cutting more urgently! (eg. our >destruction of natural & social capital). > >Must go! > >all the best, jan >PS One good thing about my brother: I once sent him some stuff Richard wrote >and he coudl give Richard some "right wing" feedback... [My brother] is honest and well-meaning and not as dumb as one might think;)... but quite preoccupied >with his family and not an activist by a lng shot. He tries to reassure me >by saying he is very "liberal" for an engineer! :) ******************************************************** FYI: the article we mention re: Reform/CCRAP From: "Janet M Eaton" <•••@••.•••> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 07:37:24 +0000 Subject: More Right Wing Party CCRAP in Canada A little spoof posted on the mai-not list yesterday and a news item from CBC - janet 1] From mai-not listserv ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 07:48:24 -0800 To: •••@••.••• From: Ed Deak <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: C-CRAP Cc: •••@••.•••, •••@••.••• The Canadian ultra-right had a convention over the weekend under the leadership of the Reform Party's Preston Manning, who urged them to "Think Big" and make a united conservative front. This would eliminate the Reform Party which is basically a Western fundamentalist movement at a dead end and hope to attract enough from the doddering Conservatives to start Canada on the road to unregulated capitalist wealth and glory without unions, social services, government and everything privatized. For these brilliant people even our Chretien Liberals are some kind of a left wing conspiracy. The tentative name of this new movement is the Canadian Conservative Reform Alliance, or CCRA Party, or CCRAP. It didn't take long for the public to catch on and here I'm enclosing a short posting on our political future under the leadership of the great Preston Manning from the pen of the Vancouver writer Marco Procaccini. With his permission, of course. Marco also gave permission to have it reposted to other lists. Cheers, Ed (Ed Deak, Big Lake, BC, Canada) ====================================================================== CRAP. This new acronym for this supposed Conservative Reform Alliance Party might actually redefine all those phrases and colloquial uses of the word. Here are some that come to mind: "It ain't worth Crap" Evaluating something in terms of Reform policy "Dealing with Crap" Negotiating with the Reform caucus on a parliamentary resolution "Piece of Crap" An article by Preston Manning "Bunch of Crap" Several articles by Preston Manning "Cut the Crap" Editing a Preston Manning speech "Putting up with Crap" Listening to Preston Manning make a speech "Buying that Crap" Reading Reform Party literature and actually believing it "Don't give me that Crap" Reading Reform Party literature and judging it appropriately "Pile of Crap" Reform Party literature that gets recycled instead of read "Deep in Crap" Living in a Reform Party stronghold "Taking Crap" Signing up enlightened Reformers into the NDP "Shooting Crap" What we might do to Reformers when we are mad at them "Crap game" Reform Party electoral campaign "Crapped out" Reform going down to a thunderous electoral defeat "No More Crap" What happens to Reform after the thunderous electoral defeat "Beat the Crap out of them" Giving Reformers instant political education Any other ideas out there? Marco Procaccini. -- For MAI-not (un)subscription information, posting guidelines and links to other MAI sites please see http://mai.flora.org/ <><><><><><><><> 2] CBC NEWS Online http://cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/news/2000/01/31/ccrap000131 Canada's newest party changes embarrassing name WebPosted Tue Feb 1 00:39:11 2000 OTTAWA - In only its second day of existence, Canada's newest right-wing party came under attack for its plans and policies, but the biggest fuss was made over its name. <snip> ************************************************* PS I wrote to Ed to make sure I could send his message to me out to you. I think his reply is worth sharing: Dear Jan, You're welcome to send out whatever I write anywhere you like. Such things should be widely known and I stand behind it. I just read last night that a group of Croatians are now suing the Vatican over their collaboration with the nazis. Long overdue. Cheers, Ed.