Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:19:48 -0400 From: Hans Sinn <•••@••.•••> Subject: Personal View Hi Jan, Below are some 5570 words by means of which I have put on paper what I would say to my fellow Canadians, who are not associated with any peace movement, if they were to ask me where I believe we are right now and where we should go - or not go. My ideas are to discussion and I hope they will improve and become more focused as our collective understanding improves. Only this morning Chaiwat Satad-Anand from Thailand sent me an email which he spoke of "the tyranny of violence and its logic". Very true. An apt description of what the peace and justice movement is about might be people who are trying to liberate themselves from "the tyranny of violence and its logic." The liberation begins, as you noted in your email with our intellectual defence against the logic of violence. Take care, Hans. Note from Jan: Hans feels it is important that this article not be edited down but otherwise, please feel free to share it. TOWARD A STRATEGY FOR DEALING WITH FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISM or TRYING TO PUT THE GENIE BACK INTO THE BOTTLE For now, my suggestions for dealing with violent, religious fundamentalists are more of a prescription for what not do to than what to do. Our responses to a surprise attack in a new and unfamiliar situation will tend to be reflexive, conditioned by past experience. Our first impulses will therefore be unsuitable to deal effectively with the new and unfamiliar situation. With any luck we will have sufficient time to correct our initial mistakes, try a number of new roads, select one and then cautiously proceed. We may safely assume that any aggressor, who has given the purpose of his aggression and loss of life some thought, has anticipated most of our reactions to his surprise attack. He will expect us to become rattled and confused and to make things worse for ourselves rather than better. If all goes well for our attacker, he will keep prodding us, use our rage, play on our fears and watch us becoming, step-by-step, victims of our own anxiety. I believe that religiously motivated terrorists are mad, that they are convinced and blinded by their conviction, but they are not stupid. On the contrary, I expect these terrorists to be of above average intelligence. I also assume, that however mad a religious terrorist might be, we still have a common humanity and what drives him also drives me, or us, although in a different measure, combination and form. The chances that we will react inappropriately to an attack are especially great when we have been blindsided, because we have paid no attention. The vulnerable civilians' first reactions to a sudden, violent, profoundly disturbing attack is to look to their elected leaders for guidance and safety. It was rather touching to hear the White House spokesperson in the hours following the September 11 attack repeatedly assure the American people "Your leader is safe. Mr. Bush is safe". I suppose it was good to know that President Bush and other ranking US government officials were safe and not among the thousands of unarmed civilians who horribly died in the attack. However, a political leader's survival seems no good reason to believe that he is a better public protector after the attack than he was before the attack. Nor do we have reason to believe that the same people who were caught napping on September 11 are awake today, even as they are moving about, issuing orders, making public pronouncements, developing new laws and sending their armies marching. I am surprised and a bit disappointed by the reactions of my New Canadian fellow citizens. Having grown up in Hitler's Germany, I have found Canadians in comparison to be eminently sane and levelheaded. So, when Canadian fighter planes circle the skies over Toronto, ready to shoot down any civilian air-plane, high-jacked by fundamentalist terrorists, I like to believe that this is a momentary aberration. Soon Canadians will come to their senses and maybe even laugh about their first hysterical reactions to this new danger. What are fundamentalists and fundamentalisms? Karen Armstrong, in her recent work "The Battle for God"( Alfred Knopf, New York, 2000.) defines it as follows "Fundamentalisms are embattled forms of spirituality, which have emerged as a response to a perceived crisis. They are engaged in a conflict with enemies whose secularist policies and beliefs seem inimical to religion itself. Fundamentalists do not regard this battle as a conventional political struggle, but experience it as a cosmic war between the forces of good and evil." Violent, religious fundamentalists do not pursue specific, political objectives; they are not limited in their targets or in the extent of their violence and destruction. The more destructive their actions the better. Unlike the secular, political terrorist the religiously motivated terrorist will not stop at a certain juncture or give up after he has been physically laid low. The violent, religious fundamentalists cannot be physically defeated because he is possessed by an idea and his objectives are not of this world. The actions of the religious fundamentalists are not politically legitimised; they have no bases in human law or conventional morality. It is useless to rail at the religious terrorist with references to human law, morality or reason. The fundamentalist is not under the control of a political authority; he believes to be informed and commanded by God, by the word of God and/or by God's representatives on earth. This means, in practice, and in the Israeli Palestinian context, that it is useless to talk beyond a certain point with Yassir Arafat and Ariel Sharon. Arafat and Sharon are secular authorities and do not control the religiously motivated terrorist. In the final analysis, Arafat and Sharon may in fact seek the advice and guidance of a religious authority, rather than the other way around. It is encouraging that both Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair are pressing Ariel Sharon to move ahead and permit the creation of a Palestinian state. However, it remains to be seen how Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair will negotiate and settle the non-negotiable issues, such as Jerusalem and the Temple Mount. The inherent problems and the way they relate to the Christian, Jewish and Moslem belief systems and secular political practice is excellently portrayed by Gershom Gorenberg "The End of Days - Fundamentalism and the Struggle for the Temple Mount" (The Free Press, N.Y. 2000) Our most promising point of departure for understanding the violent religious fundamentalist is to appreciate and accept the obvious: life is dangerous and ends in death. From a comfortable, secular, first world perspective we take it for granted that every human being will do his or her best to delay the moment of death as long as possible. In fact, we are willing to go to some extra ordinary, not to say unreasonable, lengths to postpone death. We have a humanist life-affirming premise, which makes it hard for us to accept that there are a significant number of people who are of a completely different mind. There are a growing number of people who, instead of wishing to delay the end as long as possible, are actively trying to bring it about. Their reasons may make little sense to a society rooted in secular humanism. However, for people of strong religious belief, the reasoning of religious terrorists is understandable, even though they are not acceptable. Theologians know that religious fundamentalist terrorists are trying to "hasten the end", that is they wish to usher in what Christians know as the Promised Land or the Kingdom of God. Violent fundamentalists have become impatient with waiting for The World to Come instead they are trying to force the issue by way of murder, suicide and sacrifice. It is no secret in the religious community that the desire "to hasten the end" - if need be by violence - is common to all religious fundamentalists, Moslem, Jewish, Christian as well as religious sects in Japan. I am not sure why our theologians today have not spoken up on the issue. It is well known that fundamentalists of all faiths have been vying for centuries with each other to bring about the end of "this world". They have battled each other ferociously in bloody crusades about who will be there, in the end, with God, in eternity. Maybe the subject is too scary or embarrassing for the established Church. George Bush, on the other hand, stepped right into it, when he called for a "crusade" against terrorists. Suffice it to say, from the fundamentalist perspective we are, once again, in an end run situation. There have been repeated convulsive attempts, throughout human history, to force the issue of the promised, but seemingly never arriving, World to Come. But then, we never had the means to complete the job of bringing "this world" to an end. Today we have. The more violent and widespread the struggle the more it serves the objective of the armed religious fundamentalist "to hasten the end". The more hysterical, fearful, boisterous and pretentious our response to the, as yet relatively little violence levelled at us, the more we are pandering to the apocalyptic expectations of our armed, religious opponents. The problem of containing and minimizing the violent struggle is that murder, suicide and sacrifice, which are basic to religious terrorism, are also present in conventional warfare. We don't notice these elements in the armed men whom we send out to hunt down the terrorists because we have legalized our soldier's conduct. In practice, though, the lines between between religiously and politically legitimised terror and counter terror tend to blur and eventually disappear. In the heat of battle, everything goes, there are no limits. The object of terror is to have us submit, to become puppets in some one else's scenario, to suppress language, to reduce thought and to put an end to self-willed and self -directed action. From the terrorist's point of view, ideally, the objects of his actions will become so demoralized and frightened that to escape their fear they will closet themselves and/or commit suicide. Our act of surrender to the wishes of the terrorist may begin when we put on a credible charade of self-willed and self-directed action, both for ourselves and for our audience. We may try to hide our fear from the outside by fleeing into an exaggerate nationalism on the inside, by singing and frantic flag waving. We may start to seek reassurance and leadership from people whom yesterday we would not have trusted to lead us safely across the road. We know we are starting to act with diminished responsibility when our expectations of accountability from "the authorities" begin to fade, when we merely wish to be led, to be taken by the hand and be told we are safe or will be safe. We become followers and runners with the crowd, actors in a scenario we do not understand. We are setting ourselves up to become involved in actions, which we would not approve of under normal circumstances and sober mind. Terror is primarily a mental game, a question of social engineering that aims at complete dominance and control of its objects. The trick in the mass extermination of the European Jews was to have all the work done by the Jews themselves. Observes Jean Francois Steiner about the process, which led the Jews into the extermination camps. "Its principle had been the moral disarmament of the victim by skilful doses of panic and uncertainty. This disarmament forced the victim to make a certain number of minor concessions which led to others, which in turn brought him to a third stage.." (p.44 Treblika, Simon and Schuster, 1967) Kurt Franz, the commander of Treblinka defined the goal: "We must reach the point where we no longer have to do anything, not even press a button when we get up in the morning. We create a perfect system, then we watch it work." Treblinka p.73 "Nazism" writes Anna Pawelczynska in "Values and Violence in Auschwitz "made use of an extensive social technology for the manipulation of human beings, correctly assuming (for the most part) that a specific set of conditions and stimuli ought to bring about the projected social responses… Social engineering enabled the machinery of death to be set in motion on a mass scale." (p124) The terrorists today can depend on the civilian population to demand of their governments to - DO SOMETHING - anything, even though there maybe little to be done, at least not physically other than look after the casualties and affected families. The authorities, by and large, are only too willing to oblige. Officials, whose authority has come into question in the 60s, can spring into action and are given a chance to show their mettle by taking command in the "War Against Terrorism." In Canada we now have strict border controls on both sides of the US/Canadian divide. Armed men and women in bullet prove vests are painstakingly searching, restricting and slowing down civilian and commercial traffic. Corkscrews and nail clippers are confiscated at our airports. Luggage and people are checked, coming and going on both domestic and international flights. To utter the word bomb in an airport, albeit in jest is a criminal offence. Would any half-brain terrorist, after September 11, use the main entrances and exits of any western country, instead of availing himself of the international criminal network, which has no trouble moving tons of drugs and smuggle people across our borders? The Moslem fundamentalist-terrorist, after having created an appropriate climate of fear and anxiety within North America, may not even have to re-enter North America to continue the job of destabilizing both Canada and the US. There are a sufficient number of mentally unstable groups and individuals within North America to continue stirring up popular fear and uncertainty. Violent, religious, fundamentalism and far right extremism are not peculiar to the Muslim world. We had the American Christian Patriot movement of the Oklahoma bombing. Japan had the Aum Shinrikyo sect, who perpetrated the March 1995 nerve gas attack on a Tokyo subway in the hopes of hastening a new millennium. There is no shortage of mentally unbalanced people in any population, who would take a perverse pleasure seeing this world fall apart. Today, as Americans stock pile gas masks and revolvers, no one can fail to observe how easy it would be to sow further panic and uncertainty among an easily frightened, unthinking people. There is nothing to say that the anthrax scare is not American home made, or that future similar incidents are not American made copies. A person does not have to be trained in social psychology to see how easy it is to keep the ball rolling among the North American population while US and NATO pound the Afghan country side into ever smaller pieces. I suppose it is possible that the crisis will blow over because it has been successfully managed. The War on Terrorism will succeed, the terrorist networks will be destroyed and we will return to the state of the pre-September 11 relative safety under the US NATO umbrella. But that presumes that armed religious fundamentalism will disappear, or religious fundamentalism as such will disappear. Ironically, the people most likely to see events in terms similar to those of today's religious terrorists seem to be the Americans. The Americans, who are trying to pound the terrorist into the dust, seem also to be the people who are closest in their own fears and expectations to that of the violent, religious fundamentalists. According to Paul Boyer in "When Time Shall Be No More - Prophecy Belief in Modern American Culture" (Harvard University Press, 1992) 50 % of University educated Americans believe in the second coming of Christ, that percentage rises to 60%, among the general US population. Millions of Americans are convinced that there will be a final, world destroying battle after which Christ will come and lift them out of the rubble into heaven. This includes Harry Truman who, when he was informed in June of 1945 of the first successful A-Bomb test in New Mexico, wondered in the privacy of his diary: "It may be the fire of destruction prophesied in the Euphrates Valley Era, after Noah and his fabulous Ark" (When Time Shall Be No More p.116). His apocalyptic musings did not stop him from authorizing the dropping of the first atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki two months later. During the past decade the works of "The Father of the Modern Day Bible Prophecy Movement" Hal Lindsay have sold 35 million copies. Titles such as "The Late Great Planet Earth" and "The Final Battle" enjoy a vast American readership. This final battle though is supposed to take place in the Middle East; and should the worst happen American believers are assured a place with Christ in heaven. Typical for this simplistic, American belief are the citizens of Amarillo Texas, the final assembly and distribution point of US atomic weapons, see A.G. Mojtabai " Blessed Assurance - At Home With The Bomb In Amarillo Texas". How can one respond to such mind-boggling simplicity? According to a McLean magazine survey the priority of 80% of Canadians is to make life better or at least as good for their children as for themselves. The survey results suggest to me that Canadians would not in fear for their own lives do anything, which might make life worse for their children. We will think very carefully before we commit ourselves to a course of action such as war in the nuclear age. So what are we afraid of? At this stage in the War on Terrorism the chances are infinitely greater that we will get run over by a car or die of cancer than become individual victims of a terrorist attack. Why the great excitement? What is so new and unusual? Regardless of what we do, there will always be loss of life in the ordinary course of our daily lives. There is no absolute security, no matter how careful we are. Tragedy strikes us in many forms. To sell us more "security" is a cheap exploitation of fears, and so is to sell and tell people exaggerated and fearful stories. True, so far only about 6% of Canadians elect their federal MPs on the basis of their foreign policy. Canadians' interests are overwhelmingly local and provincial. This is not a particularly good base from which to appreciate and respond intelligently to the vital concerns of people in other parts of the world. >From this provincial perspective there is a strong inclination to help the Americans to build a wall around North America, however useless and counter productive such a wall might be as a way to keep the world outside from knocking on our doors or worse, blow down our house. I am treating the question of how to cope with religiously motivated terrorism from a Canadian perspective, knowing full well that it is a global problem that cuts across all borders, classes, races, genders and ethnicity. However, to the extent that I am living in a Canada by Canadian law and am part of Canadian culture, I recommend that we do not follow the Americans much further down the road in their War on Terrorism, irrespective of how close and friendly we are with the Americans. I don't know who the Canadians are who respond hysterically to a minor physical threat and how they have come to be in such a precarious mental state. I am getting the feeling of being in a large crowd in which a significant number of people are ready to run for the exit. A number of Canadians are already running, judging by their behaviour. Unfortunately, there are no exits. Consequently, the people who are running around within Canada are getting other Canadians excited, some of whom are already on edge. (I have always wondered, and am still wondering, why the highest form of praise Canadians can bestow on a person, an object or event is to say that it is exciting). Today the people who are running for the exits are beginning to affect even those who do not easily lose their cool. It is hard to believe that people will panic and let themselves go without sufficient reason. We expect there to be a reason, but we do not see one, at least no reason to provoke such an exaggerated response. If we have been caught off guard we tend to get embarrassed and flustered. We will try to hide our confusion and try to preserve our public image, especially if it is fragile. If it is critical that we maintain a good public image and if there was no real reason to panic then we are tempted to find one or manufacture one. We begin to lie to ourselves as a form of self- defence and gradually get into a situation where we start responding to our own shadows and have people who believe in us do likewise. We are now beginning to manufacture a social scenario of growing complexity. In our scenario the people and events are real, but our point of departure, our premise, is pure fantasy. Osama bin Laden appears to be such an idea, a shadow, which has come to life. We know that Osama bin Laden is a product of the American foreign policy, which is now coming to haunt them (and us?). Osama bin Laden and his network are real enough. The problem is how to make bin Laden go away. It appears bin Laden is not going to go away. The Americans and, we, their NATO allies, are making sure that what started as an idea of how to defeat the Communists in Afghanistan has assumed a life of its own. By this time and by virtue of our massive military response to the September 11 violent and bloody provocation, the accused, Osama bin Laden, has assumed stature and his stature is growing, and is gradually taking on mythical proportions - at least in the eyes of a growing number of people in the Moslem world. Osama bin Laden has become a household word. We now could kill Osama bin Laden and his shadow and stature would remain with us. I do not expect Canada to pull out of the military engagement in Afghanistan. Our government has committed itself to the US led War on Terrorism with the approval of more than 70% of Canadians. I accept the Canadian military commitment as part of the conditioned reflex to a physical threat, or more precisely to an idea, which has taken the form of a physical threat. I also accept this War on Terrorism as an occasion for the inevitable complaint about how ill prepared Canadians are for serious, armed combat; it seems part of our worry that Canadians cannot sit at the table and play with the Big Boys unless we can make a strong military contribution. I rather not discuss the Canadian army. Instead, I am suggesting, that we shift our focus to the political front and try to give the battle over the rubble of Afghanistan a specific Canadian twist. I suggest that we pay close and special attention to the women of Afghanistan. I think we will serve Canada's and the War on Terrorism's purposes best trying to make sure that the Afghani women have a significant role in any post-Taliban government. I understand the current war largely as a man made problem - man as in male. Armed force and violence is a typical, well-established and well developed way by which we men are taught to handle problems, to display our manhood and influence. I understand religious, fundamentalist terrorists as men who are overwhelmed and crushed by their own powerlessness. For the violent man this powerlessness, which in many respects is common to us all in life, has been exaggerated by circumstances and disappointments. These men are in desperate need of an arena where they can be certain and in control. Given the opportunity in a religious society such men will revert to a strict ritualistic code of behaviour. Their behaviour is preferably governed by the word of God (military command will do) and then imposed ruthlessly and violently on the people closest at hand: the women of their own community and of their own family and then it spreads from there. These men's fear of the "weaker" sex, their distain of women and their need to control women, is unmistakable and explicit. This means, the spiritual end of the fundamentalist struggle is loaded with repressed sexuality. We now have murder, suicide, sacrifice, death and sex, rolled into one, each a force in its own right. As to the foreseeable future of Afghanistan, irrespective of the aberrant behaviour of the Talibans, their violence and their treatment of women, in the end they are men fighting other men for the spoils of war - except for those who are serious about hastening the end of this world. If there is a future Afghan peace settlement and it follows the established pattern, then it will be men rewarding each other for their pains on the battlefield. It is understood and accepted that "warriors" need to be rewarded and appeased for their efforts, less they start to kill again. Men, government officials and clan leaders, will parcel out among themselves territory, women, children, animals and other resources. Maybe women will enter in an advisory role or as secretaries somewhere, but Afghani women will most likely be parcelled out to the "warriors" together with the other spoils of war. Yet depressingly the parcelling out the spoils of war among men seems one of the best-case scenarios, for it presumes that the War on Terrorism, now in progress, will not get out of hand, there will be a peace settlement and there will be something left to be divided. Whatever peace settlement there is going to be seems still a way off. We are still in the first stages of the War on Terrorism. The defeat of the Talibans may only be the first phase. We have yet to arrive at shared understanding of whom we are fighting, what we are fighting about and what would be an acceptable conclusion. In the meantime, as Gwynne Dyer remarked "It is like trying to nail jelly to the wall" Compounding the difficulties of a peace settlement is that we are dealing with at least two types of men: the Holy Warriors who are on a suicide mission to Kingdom Come; and men who are using violence and terror to achieve (or defend) specific political ends which they expect will serve them in "this world". Both types of men tend to form alliances and carry on their fight alongside each other. Only somewhere along the road, if the battle lasts long enough, may it become apparent that their objectives are at odds and incompatible. To the political terrorist "war is the continuation of politics by other means" as defined by Carl von Clausewitz back in 1832. To the Holy Warrior war and terror are a means to realize the Kingdom of God - or something like it. In my own experience, and as I see it, when the Americans allied themselves with Osama bin Laden and his fellow Holy Warriors, they made the same mistake, which the German establishment made after WWI, when it allied itself with Adolf Hitler. After WW I the German bankers, industrialists, aristocrats, generals, university and church leaders backed Hitler, the Mad Messiah from Austria, because they saw him as an instrument to defeat the Communists and Socialists who threatened to gain political power in Germany. The alliance between Hitler and the German Establishment worked - at first. Hitler and the Nazis did indeed drive the German Communists and Socialist from the political scene. But once Hitler had consolidated his power base the German establishment got more than it had bargained for. After sending the leadership of the German Communists and Social Democrats into concentration camps, Hitler and his fellow believers, went on to exterminate the European Jews and began to build on their corpses, and that of millions other Europeans, their mythical 1000 Year Empire - the German equivalent of the Kingdom of God. In spite of the evidence, which has accumulated throughout human history, we still have not factored into our political dealings with each other our capacity for mental derangement, both individually and collectively. If we had factored pathology into our politics then we would not for political purposes use people who believe that making war, killing people, terrifying people and destabilizing countries is holy. Unfortunately, we continue to do so. We have let, as it were, the Genie out of the bottle and the Genie, after having done our bidding, is refusing to go back in. He wants his reward, which we are unwilling to give him. I don't pretend to know the answer. I am sure, though, that before we continue much further along our present road, we have to come to a social consensus about what and with whom we are dealing. Less we are going to be at odds with each other. I do not believe in trying to overcome one addiction with another (as the Americans have been doing for some time in Colombia) Combating drugs with armed force is a losing proposition unless you are into fighting as an activity in itself and get your rewards from fighting. John Keegan's central argument in his 1993 work "A History of Warfare" is that Clausewitz got it wrong. To accept that war in the continuation of politics by other means is taking a too limited view of war making. John Kegan shows convincingly that there are a significant number of men, indeed whole societies, to whom war is a way of life, a culture without any other purpose, political or otherwise. I have too much of a vested interest in the advancement of non-violence to push the issue of non-violence. However, irrespective of the moral aspect I find the prevailing belief in armed force as the supreme problem solving mechanism pathetic. It seems indicative of a lack of imagination and creativity. Osama bin Laden may depart this world, one way or another, maybe even his network will come apart, but there will be others. As long as the US and NATO help to frustrate the hopes and expectations of parts of humanity for a better life in this or in another world, they are liable to engender large scale frustration, a suicidal rage and a more fanatic belief in the biblical promises of another better world. Once the bottled up rage has surfaced, as it has now, it will be hard to put it back in to the bottle and forget that it exists, right next to our arsenals of ABC weapons. There are Americans in responsible positions who know and understand what they are dealing with and who appreciate the difference between the politically and religiously motivated terrorist (I don't know if they have considered violence as a way of life as an issue). Said California Congress woman Jane Harmen during the recent CBC TV program "Trail of a Terrorist" about the religiously motivated terrorist "They don't anymore want to sit at the table (like the anti-globalisation activists) they want to blow up the table". Jane Harmen thus confirmed what students of various forms of terrorism such as Bruce Hoffman "Old Madness New Methods" have been saying for many years. The fact that the religious terrorists "want to blow up the table" might send a note of caution to the anti-globalisation movement. The members of today's civil society movement are well qualified to understand the issues, which tend to driven the religious terrorists over the edge. But the movement should know the difference between their own social/political objectives and the otherworldly objectives of the religiously motivated suicide bombers. Failing to see the difference would have the modern labour and human rights movement repeat the mistake the workers and farmers made during the Middle Ages. At that time the peasant and crafts people were vigorously campaigning for better living and working conditions. But in the process the members of the secular social justice movement made the mistake of unwittingly aligning themselves with the millenarians, who were also on the move, but in expectation of the imminent arrival of the Kingdom of God. The peasants and artisans wanted to improve their living and working conditions in this world, while the millenarians were on their way out of this world, into to heaven. The results of this alliance, wherever it occurred, were disastrous. (see Norman Cohn "The Pursuit of the Millennium - Revolutionary Millenarians and Mystical Anarchists of the Middles Ages", Oxford University Press, New York, 1970, first edition 1957) So what can Canadians safely do at this stage? Safely meaning, undertake or support actions and policies, which although they may not be of immediate and great effect, are at least not counter-productive. I dare hope that the suggested activities and policies may prove useful in future, assuming that other people and countries join Canadians in their efforts: · Do everything possible to assure that Afghan women have a significant role in any future Afghan government. · Proceed with the completion of the International Criminal Court, in the development of which Canada is playing already a leading role. · Treat the September 11 suicide attack as a crime against humanity, which is to be tried in an International Criminal Court - not by a Moslem or American court, · Start transforming the so-called War on Terrorism into an international law-enforcement action; that is, a police action. · Persuade the clergy of all faiths to declare religiously based terrorism a sacrilege, and if necessary, excommunicate the terrorists. · If necessary have the religious terrorists tried in a religious court. During the Middle Ages a person who was found guilty of heresy by a religious court was handed over to the secular authorities to be burnt at the stake. I am not advocating the burning of religiously motivated terrorist at the stake (although some people may feel like it). However, I see the medieval relationship between religious and secular authorities as a potential model for cooperation between today's secular and religious spokespeople. Hans Sinn October 18. 2001 -----------------------30----------------------- Civilian Peace Service http://www.superaje.com/~marsin/cps.html