Bcc: contributors Friends, Lots of people responded to the posting "Update on Israeli military aggression". Some responses were quite heated, and a wide spectrum of views were expressed. As usual, names are removed from those which were addressed to me personally. As an introduction, I'm including excerpts from a recent posting by Bill Thomson describing what is currently going on in the Palestinian refugee camps. rkm http://cyberjournal.org ============================================================================ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:21:40 -0400 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: Bill Thomson <•••@••.•••> Subject: MIDEAST URGENT ACTION: 4/11/02-1 (AM--EST) ---<snip>--- Excellent sources for current updates: http://www.truthout.org/ http://www.palestinechronicle.com http://www.jerusalem.indymedia.org http://www.soundvision.com/info/jerusalem http://www.jewsagainsttheoccupation.org/. Previous copies of these updates will be available at http://www.soundvision.com/info/jerusalem ---<snip>--- Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:50:59 +0200 From: "Lawsociety" <•••@••.•••> To: "Lawlist List Member" <•••@••.•••> Subject: Israel digs mass graves - covering up war crimes {01} Israel digs mass graves - covering up war crimes 10 April 2002 This morning, April 10, LAW has managed to obtain the following information from Jenin refugee camp. Residents of the refugee camp report that they were first moved from the camp. Eyewitnesses stated that Israeli forces are now digging large holes inside Jenin refugee camp and in surrounding areas. They have stated their fears that these are mass graves, where the several killed (numbers still to be confirmed) in the refugee camp will be buried. Eyewitnesses saw Israeli forces putting bodies inside the holes. The area is located in the middle of the camp, also known as Haret al-Hawarish. ---<snip>--- LAW believes that these current actions suggest an intention to hide evidence of Israeli war crimes committed in Jenin refugee camp. They follow statements made by Israeli foreign minister Shimon Peres in Ha'aretz, April 9, 2002, that a "massacre" has been carried out in the camps and statements made by Israeli army officers that "the soldiers are almost not advancing on foot. The bulldozers are simply 'shaving' the homes and causing terrible destruction. When the world sees the pictures of what we have done there, it will do us immense damage." "However many wanted men we kill in the refugee camp, and however much of the terror infrastructure we expose and destroy there, there is still no justification for causing such great destruction." Peter Hansen, director of UNRWA also confirmed on April 7, 2002, that "We are getting reports of pure horror - that helicopters are strafing residential areas, that systematic shelling by tanks has created hundreds of wounded, that bulldozers are razing refugee homes and that food and medicine will soon run out. ---<snip>--- LAW reaffirms that these military assaults targeting civilians throughout the Occupied Palestinian Territories, including Jenin and Nablus amount to war crimes and crimes against humanity. LAW condemns as well these ongoing attempts to prevent access for human rights monitors, journalists, and humanitarian agencies to these sites of mass killings to investigate and document evidence of war crimes and crimes against humanity. ---<snip>--- ___________________________ William J. (Bill) Thomson, Ph.D. (•••@••.•••) ============================================================================ Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 09:43:53 -0500 From: B To: <•••@••.•••> Subject: Update on aggression Dear Richard: Thanks for your beautiful statement the Israeli/Palestine crisis. There appears a big turn, from an uncaring humanity to caring-- this is more than parochial it is a humanity issue B ============================================================================ From: T Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 16:13:50 EST Subject: Re: Update on Israeli military aggression To: •••@••.••• rkm > There can be no excuse for unleashing a modern army on a mainly unarmed civilian population. can you spell afghanistan? =============== Dear T, Can you spell parallel? rkm ============================================================================ From: "SAMSIMON" <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••> Subject: RE: Update on Israeli military aggression Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 16:26:14 -0500 See Tom Friedens's Sunday's piece. Palestinian's are not using suicide bombers out of desperation. It is a calculated strategic decision to get their objective, and it is working. It is their choice of weapon in their war. If it works, and it is, it will be come every guerilla movements weapon of choice -- watch out. Sam ====== Dear Sam, What we should be 'watching out' for, in my opinion, are the racist, imperialist policies which cause people around the world to form guerilla movements as their only desperate means of collective defense. rkm ============================================================================ From: "Darren & Helen" <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••> Subject: RE: Update on Israeli military aggression Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 09:30:00 +0930 Suicide Bombers ? - Are they ALL Palestinian? Mossad is well known for it's Flase-Flag operations - in fact it is pretty much their standard MO. I don't doubt that some young idealistic palestinians do in fact become martyrs - but car bombs? No...that's israel creating public opinion.... ========== Dear D & H, I'm sure some of that must be going on. It's standard procedure not just for Mossad, but for intelligence services around the world going back centuries. Permit me to suggest that a wider point can be made along these same lines. Self-inflicted bombings or not, the actions of Israel's hawkish leadership seems to have been designed to provoke a desperate response sooner or later. The Western media typically assigns the initiative to the Palestinians: ~first~ a suicide bombing, and ~then~ an Israeli response. I think a fairer characterization is that the Israeli occupation forces squeeze the population until it responds, and then use that response as an excuse to squeeze harder. The settlements are a clear message that Israel envisions no permanent home for the Palestinians in the evolving Greater Israel. rkm ============================================================================ Delivered-To: •••@••.••• Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 20:07:10 -0800 To: "Richard K. Moore" <•••@••.•••> From: A Subject: Re: Update on Israeli military aggression rkm published> >ISRAEL GOES ON NUCLEAR STRIKE STANDBY >Gordon Thomas (EXCLUSIVE) >by Gordon Thomas Unless you have some of the source of the story, at least enough to be able to say what forces are circulating it so that we can analyse their motives in doing so, I can see no justification for further spreading it around. A ====== Dear A, I'm less interested in the motivation of the distributors than I am in the validity of the report itself. Many analysts have expressed concern about a wider war erupting in the region, and I would be quite surprised if Israel were not on nuclear military alert. It would not be like them to be unprepared for predictable emergencies. The source and content of the report impressed me as being credible and sensible, and the topic was one deserving of widespread distribution. That's about the only filter I can apply, given the limited time I can devote to this work. For those who want to check further, I did as usual include whatever headers and internal addresses that were present in the original posting. rkm ============================================================================ From: •••@••.••• Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 16:51:06 EST Subject: Re: Update on Israeli military aggression To: •••@••.••• Richard, Re the Israeli-Palestinian conflict -- The historic suffering of the Jewish people is not only irrelevant as you say, it's mocked by the Israelis themselves. In case you missed it, Israeli soldiers were marking numbers on the arms of Palestinian prisoners. Bill Blum ============================================================================ From: •••@••.••• Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 18:11:52 EST Subject: Re: Update on Israeli military aggression To: •••@••.••• rkm> There can be no excuse for unleashing a modern army on a mainly unarmed civilian population. Perhaps this is true, but our own government is shameful, too. As for the Palestine people, the Arabs are as much to blame as Jews. Besides, God gave all that land to Abraham and if you follow the 12 Tribes you will know who has ancient title and has been ostersized from the land. It is the Jews. Carl ========= Dear Carl, OK, both governments are shameful. Glad we agree on that much. I don't blame 'the Jews' for anything. What is in question are the actions of States against civilian populations, and the suppression of minorities. In this case the States are Israel and its underwriter, the USA. If you see this as a struggle between races, then I suggest that is part of the problem. Many of those protesting Israeli policy are Israelis and / or Jews. I can only say that this 'ancient title' argument is ludicrous. If you take that seriously, then everyone of European descent would need to move back to Europe, from the Americas, Australia. etc. Or perhaps you would suggest they live under well-armed governments run by the direct descendents of the original native peoples. Israel has a right to exist under international law precisely because superceded titles are ~not~ considered valid. Otherwise, the Palestinians might have a claim that Israel was created illegally by the UN. I'm sure you would protest any such claim as being unfair to the current inhabitants. rkm ============================================================================ Delivered-To: •••@••.••• From: N To: "Richard K. Moore" <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: Update on Israeli military aggression Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 21:12:54 -0500 rkm> I am aware that many of you do not share my views on what's going on there. The issues are clouded by the Palestinian suicide bombers who target innocent civilians, as well as by the sympathy all of us share for the historic suffering of the Jewish people. As I see it, the historic suffering issue is entirely irrelevant to the present day circumstances, It might be to you Richard, but it's not to us. This callous attitude has been the big mistake of the Left regarding the Mid East and why the Left bears great responsibility in what is happening to the Palestinians now. You have led them astray. They are so full of hate, and such blind racists, that one can hardly blame them for being so stupid as to pick a fight they can't win. You on the Left have bought into their delusions by your tacit ( but not real physical ) support and given them the idea that they can win through violence. How? By making every possible excuse for their racism and butchery. How stupid of you to think that Jews and Israelis in particular take the same shallow, guilt ridden view of our history that you do. Do you really wonder why we don't take world opinion to heart? Did you really think that the Jews of the world would allow the destruction of one third of it's population in the Middle East after what happened in the last century? You may be tired of holocaust this, and holocaust that. But really, you should have been smart enough to understand that it's still real to us. This is a gigantic failure of conscious mentation. It doesn't matter to most of us if you like us or not. I hope this gets your attention because if the situation in Israel gets to the point of regional war, and the Israelis face annihilation, the cost will be FAR HIGHER than what it was in the past. It's time to put your latent racism aside and get smart. The ONLY right and moral choices from this point on are those which will prevent all out war. That means that you get through your thick skulls that Israel will not commit suicide for the sake of the Palestinians and their racist friends. N =========== Dear N. I can only say that your attitude itself, in my view, is a major part of the problem. I'm not saying it's a primary cause, but it enables the Israeli regime to pursue its strategy of suppression and provocation. I consider the people of Israel to be as much the victim of these policies as are the Palestinians. The policies drive a spiral of escalation that brings the suicide bombings and threatens a wider war whose awesome consequences could only be guessed at. Following 911, the USA is now rapidly trying to catch up with Israel for the tile of 'most paranoid nation'. And as in Israel, the race is driven by an extremist, lying media, and by top officials just this side of Genghis Khan. First create terrorism, and then massacre civilian populations with high-power weapons. It's a sick scenario, and it's time we stop letting them get by with it. That's what the Nuremberg trials were all about. rkm ============================================================================
