____________________
Previous related postings:
19 Mar 2007 Is global warming a hoax?
http://cyberjournal.org/show_archives/?id=1270&lists=cj
20 Mar 2007 re: global warming -- the science
http://cyberjournal.org/show_archives/?id=1271&lists=cj
22 Mar 2007 global warming science: dissenting views
http://cyberjournal.org/show_archives/?id=1272&lists=cj
23 Mar 2007 Global warming: politics & 'responses'
http://cyberjournal.org/show_archives/?id=1273&lists=cj
23 Mar 2007 Biofuels Boom Spurring Deforestation
http://cyberjournal.org/show_archives/?id=1274&lists=cj
28 Mar 2007 Global warming etc -- cure always worse than disease
http://cyberjournal.org/show_archives/?id=1275&lists=cj
29 Mar 2007 dialog re/global warming etc.
http://cyberjournal.org/show_archives/?id=1276&lists=cj
30 Mar 2007 more dialog re/ climate change etc.
http://cyberjournal.org/show_archives/?id=1277&lists=cj
30 Mar 2007 Globalists Love Global Warming
http://cyberjournal.org/show_archives/?id=1278&lists=cj
06 Apr 2007 Last stage of denial: ethanol will save us!
http://cyberjournal.org/show_archives/?id=2367&lists=newslog
____________________
Friends,
Global warming is a real problem, and co2 emissions definitely
contribute to the problem.
What I'm trying to get you to think about is how this issue is being
used to control our minds, to gain support for measures that will
make things worse, and to make us think governments are on our side.
rkm
--------------------------------------------------------
From: "Carl Page" <•••@••.•••>
To: rkm <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Fwd: dialog re/global warming etc.
Please unsubscribe me. "<mailto:•••@••.•••>•••@••.•••".
I'm sorry, I tried 4 times but ezmlm doesn't seem to be able to do it
with my current email setup.
Been a subscriber for at least 6 years, and mostly enjoyed it, but I
absolutely cannot stomache climate change denials.
Life's too short to argue with creationists or exxon sponsored morons
who might as well be.
---
Hi Carl,
I've unsubscribed you and copied you on this one message.
I find it interesting that you didn't choose to unsubscribe when I
posted "Is global warming a hoax?", or "global warming science:
dissenting views". Those both presented 'denial' views, and I could
have understood you objecting to that. Instead you unsubscribe after
"dialog re/global warming etc.", which was in no way challenging the
reality of global warming. Why is this?
You say life's too short to argue with certain people. That may be,
but 'not talking to the other' is how we are kept divided as a
society. This is part of the mind-control regime. Everyone sits there
with their own little belief system, angry at the 'others' for not
agreeing, and blaming them for the problems. Refusing dialog is not a
solution to anything.
rkm
--------------------------------------------------------
From: "Robert R. Holt" <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: dialog re/global warming etc.
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:36:05 -0400
To: •••@••.•••
Hi, Richard,
It must make you somewhat uncomfortable to find yourself in
the company of antisemites and Neanderthals like Sen. Inhofe in your
quixotic stand on global warming. I agree that the world would be a
lot better off, and we'd have a much easier time coping with the
climate change crisis if capitalism would kindly wither away,
together with the power of the biggest corporations. The route you
advocate is appealing, but it reminds me of those who said, in the
old days of legal segregation, the way to end racial injustice is to
change the hearts of the racists, one by one. No doubt a few of
those black hearts got somewhat bleached by the loving efforts of
truly enlightened people, but I think we would still have segregated
schools etc. if it had not been for successful efforts WITHIN THE
EXISTING SYSTEM. The demand for perfection is always an enemy of the
good, and I think you are dangerously perfectionistic in refusing to
accept the facts that a highly developed climate crisis is already
upon us, that the world's weather is going to get uncomfortably
hotter and wilder, beset by unprecedented and simultaneous floods,
droughts, and storms, and that the time for serious action has
already been delayed for several decades. Don't stand on the
sidelines while others are struggling to get the government to take
meaningful action, sneering that it's all pointless because the
international bankers control everything anyway. Continue your
effort to make fundamental economic and social change, but meanwhile
don't abet Exxon-Mobil and the neocons by helping with more modest
(though still enormously difficult) but more focused efforts to stave
off disaster. Are you at least reading the reports of our best
relevant scientists on what is happening and their pleas for
concerted social action? E.g., newsfeeds from the "Climate Crisis
Coalition"
<<mailto:•••@••.•••>•••@••.•••>
give useful weekly summaries and lead you to the original sources.
Bob Holt
--------
Hi Bob,
People may be struggling to to get the government to take meaningful
action, but they won't succeed. The government has no intention of
taking meaningful action. They're pushing ethanol for cars, which
simply keeps the car culture going, and also will result in mass
starvation as acreage is taken out of food production. They'll hit us
with carbon taxes, which simply transfers more wealth to military
programs. And they'll use the issue to restart the nuclear power
industry, which only opens us up to new dangers. They're pushing
'carbon credits', which gives them permission to keep producing co2,
and which is leading to deforestation. Do you take comfort in these
'responses'?
I encourage people to think about transforming society not because I
seek perfection, but because that's the only way we'll solve any of
our problems.
You say that I am "refusing to accept the facts that a highly
developed climate crisis is already upon us". That is simply untrue,
and there's certainly nothing like that in the posting your are
replying to, "dialog re/global warming etc." This kind of irrational
response is a sign that mind control is working.
rkm
--------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 19:03:19 -0400
From: "David Schwartzman" <•••@••.•••>
To: •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: Globalists Love Global Warming
Yes, this article does capture one insight, that a significant
faction, maybe even the dominant one, of transnational capital will
use the reality of likely climate change catastrophe to impose their
model of globalization from above. This approach will likely include
the imposition of onerous carbon taxes, with low income and the
global working class bearing the burden of transition.
There has always been an alternative to globalization from above of
course, globalization from below, the creation of a transnational of
peace and justice, fighting for global demilitarization, solarization
and conversion of industrial agriculture to agroecology.
Denying the reality of likely Climate Change Catastrophe will simply
hand over our planet to the regressive wing of capital that wants to
prolong oil/coal and nuclear addiction or to the globalists from
above. Richard which one do you prefer?
For more on the other world that is possible, go to:
http://www.redandgreen.org/Documents/Our_Future_Solar_Utopia_Revisited.htm
David Schwartzman
I am a Profesor at Howard University,
Washington, DC, a research biogeochemist
--------
Hi David,
Again, you are irrationally accusing me of 'denying the reality'. You
are also assuming that debate about global warming affects what the
government does. The government does not respond to public opinion,
it manages public opinion to gain support for whatever actions it
wants to take, for its own reasons.
rkm
--------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:32:55 -0700
From: Caspar Davis <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: Globalists Love Global Warming
To: •••@••.•••
I don't think this guy's diatribe adds much light to the matter.
Caspar
-----
Hi Casper,
I am very curious about your response. Why do you say the posting
adds no light, and why do you dismiss it as a 'diatribe'?
In the previous posting, I had commented that if the G8 is talking
about climate change, that means they'll be using it to centralize
their global power. I said this simply on the basis of how elites
always operate. And then someone sent me the "Globalists Love Global
Warming" article, which names names and gives details about that very
centralization of power. I think that adds a lot of light. Perhaps
you can expand on your message.
rkm
--------------------------------------------------------
From: "Jerold Hubbard" <•••@••.•••>
To: <•••@••.•••>
Subject: Re: Globalists Love Global Warming
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 10:53:29 -0600
Did anyone ever come to think that they,and their offspring, the rich
few; have to live on the planet themselves!!!!!!!! And whatever one
wants to say about the elite few who are basically running the
civilized world, they are NOT stupid!!!
Jerold Hubbard
-----------
Hi Jerold,
Despite global warming, there will be nice places left to live
somewhere, and those who are wealthy enough will be able to live
there. I wish more people kept in mind the fact that 'they' are not
stupid.
rkm
--------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 11:03:29 -0700
From: •••@••.•••
To: •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: Globalists Love Global Warming
someone wrote:
A common charge leveled against those who question the
official orthodoxy of the global warming religion is that
they are acting as stooges for the western establishment and
big business interests. If this is the case, then why do the
high priests of the elite and kingpin oil men continue to
fan the flames of global warming hysteria?
Only recently have any global elites fanned such flames and this only
after it started to become undeniable to many that are EXPERIENCING
the warming. "Elites" have always sought to maintain a mandate for
their position and if they continue to ignore the vast changes
occurring then they will lose clout. It's really that simple.
To deny that humans are affecting the warming of the planet and
exacerbating it is to deny that either A) the gases released by human
industry trap heat or that B) human industry emits such gases. Either
is easily proven.
This is my standing challenge to all that would deny the human effect
on climate and I seriously doubt that any scientist (or anyone for
that matter) is up to the task of denying either. If it can be shown
that human industry produces such substances and if it can be shown
that such gases trap heat (none of these individual pillars of the
global warming "theory" has ever, to my knowledge, been denied by
anyone - even the most vehement critics), then the global warming
"debate" is over. Period.
-------
Hi Smiley,
Again, you are talking about denial when there was no denial. Why?
Your argument about why global elites are fanning the flames does not
make much sense. If they were afraid of 'losing clout' from public
opinion, then why aren't they responding to concerns about the war in
Iraq, or GMO crops, or dozens of other issues that people are
concerned about?
They've picked one issue, succeeded in focusing our attention on
that, and now they're going to proceed to do nothing about it while
they pretend they are. Meanwhile you and others seem to resent there
being any further discussion. That's mind control at work.
rkm
--------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 13:04:59 +1200
From: "James Samuel" <•••@••.•••>
To: •••@••.•••
Subject: Re: more dialog re/ climate change etc.
Hi Richard,
In response to Anna-Maria you suggested that: "It's a matter of
transforming society's infrastructures, food production, economic
basis, etc."
I would suggest that more than this, it is a matter of a change of
heart. From one of mistrust and suspicion, to one of trust and
cooperation.
Out of that we may discover how little we "need" to live. When we
have met our essential needs for food, shelter (warmth), clothing,
then we can go onto the creative things like education, transport,
celebration.
James
(Father)
---------
Hi James,
Why do you assume people are mainly mistrustful and suspicious? I
don't know anyone like that. It's a disempowering myth, a way to get
us to blame ourselves, the victims, for how elites run the world.
rkm
--
--------------------------------------------------------
Escaping the Matrix website: http://escapingthematrix.org/
cyberjournal website: http://cyberjournal.org
Community Democracy Framework: http://cyberjournal.org/DemocracyFramework.html
Subscribe cyberjournal list: •••@••.•••
(send blank message)
Posting archives:
http://cyberjournal.org/show_archives/
Moderator: •••@••.•••
(comments welcome)
