============================================================================ From: Morgan <•••@••.•••> To: •••@••.••• Subject: Re: cj#1137,rn> 'left and right together, we shall not be moved...' Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 11:07:54 +0100 12 Oct 2000 rkm wrote: As I explain in the letter below, I believe that the key to movement success will be the coming together of grass-roots people and groups from the left and right. Much as I enjoy your articles, I think you've flipped on this one! :) The factor you don't seem to have taken into consideration is that the 'right' mindset is _biologically_ different to the 'left' mindset - at least from my and many others experiences in the public political arena. Once into their thirties, most folk have become entrenched in pursuing their very different lifestyles. The underlying and fundamental differences being the 'right' put property and possessions first and only think about their own and their families well-being against all-comers, regardless, whereas the 'left' start off thinking about everyone and end up trying to control who and what they can ;-) A better approach, IMO, would be to ditch these ancient crumbling semiotics altogether and just continue appealing to 'people', young ones at that, at the grass roots level, in an attempt to dissolve the divisiveness. But you're never going to turn a 30+ redneck into a tree-hugger! Morgan http://www.environment.org.uk/activist/ for a cohesive set of links exposing the obscene injustices rife in today's corporate climate. Campaigning for a retrospective moratorium on mergers, worldwide. ================================= Dear Morgan, Thaks for your kind words about my articles. I'm afraid I can't go along with this theory about 'biological difference'. I think it is true that many people question their assumptions less and less as they get more into their life groove, but this can be explained more by habit than by a presumption of an irreversible biological transformation. I've seen many people seriously modify their perspectives later in life when they came into contact with other ways of looking at things, or when their accumulated life wisdom began to kick into gear. Neither can I accept the stereotypical images of left and right that you offer. It is in fact these kinds of stereotypes which keep us divided as a society. We concoct (or accept from the media) a 'mythical other' and then convince ourselves that such really exists. I have many friends and relatives on the the 'right', and most of them are the most generous, sharing, community-minded people you could hope to come across. And I know liberal-minded yuppies who more concerned with their flash cars and cell phones than they are 'thinking about everyone'. Stereotypes are counter productive to mutual understanding and communication. As for ditching "these ancient crumbling semiotics altogether" - that is precisely what I'm suggesting. The categories aren't real. At one time they represented different classes - workers on the left and bosses on the right - but that original meaning has been, as you say 'crumbling' into history. The categories are now maintained by the kind of sterotypes you offer, such as the 'redneck', who is presumably racist, small-minded, uneducated, xenophobic, etc., etc. The way we ditch these 'ancient semiotics' is not by clinging to our sterotypes, but by actually engaging the 'other' and finding out what they're really about. It is ironic that you choose "turning a 30+ redneck into a tree-hugger" as your example of an impossibility, since that is precisely the kind of transformation that's been happening recently in parts of the American labor movement. Not that loggers are likely to embrace the _term 'tree hugger', but they are beginning to realize that the same corporations that are eliminating their jobs are also destroying the environment. In Seattle union members marched beside environmentalists, and the two groups found their common interests ran deep. They learned, through collaboration, that their stereotypes were bogus. This is the kind of thing we need to see a lot more of. (Note the last posting below, from Brian Hill, re/ ways in which people are beginning to break down the timeworn categories.) rkm Btw> If anyone has the latest Sierra magazine, let me know. I'd appreciate a copy of the "Redneck Manifesto" mentioned in the posting from Brian, after this next one. ============================================================================ From: •••@••.••• Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:01:53 -0700 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Richard K. Moore" <•••@••.•••> Subject: Re: cj#1137,rn> 'left and right together, we shall not be moved...' How nauseating to even suggest that we consort with fascists. I suggest you cease and desist from this anti-human and progressive tact immediately. Sincerely, Michael Givel ========================== Dear Michael, I have a suspicion your remark may be toungue in cheek, but I'll respond as if you're serious for the sake of discussion. When I say "the key to movement success will be the coming together of grass-roots people and groups from the left and right", the critical phrase in the sentence is 'grass-roots'. We're talking about your friends, neighbors, and co-workers, not fascists. Among stereotypes, you're offering a more extreme version than those offered by Morgan above. Your counterpart on the right thinks of you as a 'liberal conspirator trying to force godless communism on America using UN forces who are practicing right now in the U.S. wilderness with their black helicopters'. Those attracted by the darkest stereotypes exist on both sides. The real fascists are those who cater to people's mythologies and use it manipulate them into supporting extermist elite objectives. While Hitler appealed to racist sentiment, the fascists of today speak with a liberal tongue. It is 'human rights' which justified the 78-day blitzkrieg against the people of Serbia, not 'lebensraum' or 'national pride', or even old-fashioned 'American interests'. In both cases, the real objectives was the economic exploitation of resources and populations - in Hitler's case those of Russia, and in NATO's case those of the Balkans. That's what fascism is really about. rkm ============================================================================ From: "Brian Hill" <•••@••.•••> To: [list suppressed] Subject: Re: [CIA-DRUGS] Environmentalists Against Gore Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 07:15:56 -0700 Chuck; The other night on TV this ... Maher comedian from Politically Incorrect said,"the only difference between the Republicans and Democrats is that more benevolent corporations finance the Democrats." Both parties are mere instruments of big corporations. Neither party cares about the little people - that's why we say that corporations rule, and its time we take back our government. I don't know if I told you, but for a Masters in archeology I specialized in the evolution of civilizations, and I found that they rise and fall just like any other part of nature, and man has yet to alter this natural process. Anyway, the period of cultural evolution we are in now is that we are changing from a centralized to local foci of power. The so-called paradigm shift will manifest in a new florescence of local cultures. The bad side is that Russian is ahead of us already in disintegrating, and chaos is prevalent. We should take note of the dysfunctionality of the present rule by corporations and do our best to build localization. Below is how some are suggesting that the grass roots try working together. Because if we don't start working together democratically we'll end up like Russia - dead meat for the IMF/WB vultures to pluck. Brian Hill ****************************** (recent statements about grass roots left, grass roots right alliances) (1) Hi Brian, [This is from one who has much experience with the so-called Eugene Anarchists] How's it going? Things are pretty good here, considering. (The trial for my friends is in about three weeks and that's really fucking scary, but if it wasn't for that things would be going great. If you haven't seen the latest issue of Sierra magazine, get a copy! It has Fall Creek on the cover, and a really positive article about the [tree] sit and the movement. Have you read "The Redneck Manifesto" yet? By Jim Goad, a portland writer, if you don't have a copy you need to buy about twelve and start giving them away, you're going to shit your pants when you read it!! It's THAT good! Anyway, hope you're well. I'm around until mid-November, though I might go up to Portland sometime in there. Let me know if you're back in these parts before then, would be good to get together with you and Jeff before I leave. See ya! Chris I HOPE THE ALLIANCE FOR SUSTAINABLE JOBS AND THE ENVIRONMENT GETS INTO THIS. bh ******************************** (2) Friends, As I explain in the letter below, I believe that the key to movement success will be the coming together of grass-roots people and groups from the left and right. We need also to ---<snip - forward of earlier rn posting>--- ******************************** -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Chase <•••@••.•••> To: [list suppressed] Date: Saturday, October 14, 2000 14:37 Subject: Fw: [CIA-DRUGS] Environmentalists Against Gore Maybe we are going to vote for the wrong guy, I didn't know Al Gore, the kiddies pal was helping us out so much. Everybody should send him a letter thanking him for supporting logging and mining and agriculture/ranching. I feel so much better now knowing Al is on our side. Vote for Bush and go broke in twenty years. Vote for Gore, he can do it in four. Kind of nice seeing a little division in the enviro camp.......................Chuck Chase Is Al Gore an environmentalist? Attached is a statement from 61 evironmental leaders from 18 states, including David Brower, elder statesman of the environmental movement, released in July 2000. This statement was read twice today at Gore HQ and handed to staff at the HQ. Roadrunner Santa Barbara Earth First! ----------------------------------------------- Environmental Leaders Announce The Formation of Environmentalists Against Gore Jul 21 '00 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE JULY 21, 2000 9:00 AM Environmental Leaders Announce The Formation of Environmentalists Against Gore WASHINGTON - July 21 - Sixty-one environmental leaders from 18 states announced today the formation of ENVIRONMENTALISTS AGAINST GORE, and urged people who care about protecting America's environment to listen to their conscience and vote for anyone but Democratic candidate Al Gore. "Gore is getting the endorsement of some national environmental groups only because they are so afraid of George Bush, and so intimidated by the Gore campaign's where-else-can-you-go attitude," said Tim Hermach, one of the organizers of Environmentalists Against Gore. "Vice President Gore has a long record of making campaign promises about protecting America's natural heritage and then breaking his promise every time one of his political supporters wants to do something that would damage or destroy our forests, rivers, and streams, oceans, even our National Parks," Hermach added. "If George W. Bush wins the election, then at least we could expect the national environmental community to really fight for tougher pollution enforcement and genuine protection of our living life-support system," said David Brower, another founder of Environmentalists Against Gore. "From Alaska to the Everglades, New Jersey to California, the Vice President talks about being an environmentalist, but he's sold out American citizens, workers, taxpayers and the environment more times than we can count. He sides with clear-cutting timber barons, big sugar, big oil and real estate speculators over forests and watersheds, parks and wildlife. And we lose those fights because when Al Gore sells out, national environmental groups come to his aide, claiming the problem lies somewhere else, with Congress or federal agencies. But we all know the buck stops at the White House." All the environmental leaders supporting the organization released this statement: "Many of our members support Ralph Nader, and others believe that even having George W. Bush in the White House, under the eye of an energized environmental community, will lead to better protection for nature and wildlife than we can expect from Al Gore. We've seen Gore turn his back on the people of Appalachia while mountains and streams are illegally destroyed by strip miners. We've seen Gore talk about the importance of preserving our forest heritage while refusing to stop cutting it down. He is increasing the logging of what's left of our publicly owned native and old-growth national forests and monuments as we speak. Al Gore talks about the catastrophic threat of global warming, yet shows very little leadership to stop it. We've seen him talk about fighting sprawl while he's promoting sleazy real estate deals that would move industrial jobs away from urban Miami onto farmland between two National Parks. We've heard him lecture the world about preserving nature in the tropics when he is encouraging the big sugar plantations to continue polluting our own Everglades. We've read candidate Gore's press releases about protecting our beaches from offshore drilling, and then watched Vice President Gore say it is none of his business if his own Administration promotes offshore drilling in Florida, California, and Alaska. We've watched Gore pretend not to know about it when his own White House staff and the federal agencies turn the Endangered Species Act into a tool for extinction. And just this week we watched Al Gore refuse to advocate breaching of four Snake River dams rejecting the recommendations of scientists and federal agencies. We believe that people, nature and wildlife, in the United States and in the world, will be better protected if we return to an honest national debate about the role of the environment in our lives and economy, instead of the cynical orchestrated charade Vice President Gore is engaged in." 1) We can't get what we want by voting for what we don't want. 2) We can't win by submitting to fear of imagined Republican actions. 3) We can no longer condone or reward the long and established record of dishonesty, smoke & mirrors, shell games and betrayal. 4) We can't get good & honest people to run if we repeatedly fail to support the ones that do. 5) We demand Fair & Open Debates - and honest politicians. 6) We demand that People and the Public Interest receive the importance now given to corporate cash and political supporters. 7) We realize that false friends can often do more harm than known adversaries. Voting Our Principles & Hopes, Not Our Fears. (affiliations listed for identification purposes only) Cindy Allsbrooks - TX - Headwaters & NFC - (409) 653-3982 Patricia Awerbuch - PA - Independent - (610) 359-1931 Florence Barone - MI - Michigan Land Use Institute - (231) 882-4723 Caroline Bauman - Lincoln County Chapter, Oregon LCV - (541) 547-3075 Moisha Blechman - NYC Sierra Club - (212) 869-1630 John Borowski - OR - Environmental Science Teacher - (541) 929.5224 David Brower - CA - Sierra Club, Earth Island - (415) 788-3666 Jasper Carlton - CO - Biodiversity Legal Foundation - (303) 926-7606 Lee Christie - OR - Audubon and The Nature Conservancy - (541) 386-8891 Patricia Clary - CA - Californians for Alternatives to Toxics - (707) >822-8497 Michael Colby - VT - Food & Water - (802) 563-3300 Carla Connally - AL - Wild South - (256) 974-6166 Karen Coulter - OR - Blue Mountain Biodiversity Project - (541) 468-2028 Ronnie Cummins - MN - Pure Food Campaign - (218) 226.4164 Murray Dailey - MI - North Woods Wilderness Recovery - (906) 225-1938 David Dilworth - CA - Friends of the Forest - (831) 624.6500 Michael Donnelly - OR - Friends of the Breitenbush Cascades - (503) >581-2616 Melanie Duchin - AK - Greenpeace - (907) 278-2502 Ray Fenner - MN - Superior Wilderness Action Network - (651) 646-6277 Sara Folger - MT - Predator Conservation Alliance - (406) 587-3389 Janet Fout - OH - Huntington Tri-State Audubon - (304) 522-0246 Rick Gorman - NY - Native Forest Council Regional - (718) 530-5663 Dan Hamburg - CA - ex-Congressman - Voice of the Environment - (707) >467-0329 Tim Hermach - OR - Native Forest Council - (541) 688-2600 or (541) >953-5293 Carol Hoover - AK/CA - EYAK Preservation Council - (415) 454-2436 Deborah Howes - OR - Oregon Wildlife Federation - (503) 286-3634 Denise Joines - WA - One Northwest - (206) 286.1235 x12 Tracy Katelman - CA - EcoForester/Activist - (707) 629-3599 Joe Keating - OR -Chapter Chair of Sierra Club's Oregon Chapter, (503) >234-2613 Don Kegley - United Steelworkers of America - (509)-483-9126 Steve Kelly - MT - Friends of the Wild Swan - (406) 586-0180 Jeff Kessler - WY - Biodiversity Associates - (307) 742-7978 Leeona Klippstein - CA - Spirit of the Sage Council - (626) 744-9932 Cecelia Lanman - CA - EPIC Emeritus - (707) 923.3614 Martin Litton - CA - Grand Canyon Dories - (415) 851-2616 Gwen Marshall - OH - Protect Biodiversity & Public Lands - (513) >761-6978 Emily Miggins - CA - Founder, Re-Think Paper - (510) 636-9019 David Orr - UT - Glen Canyon Action Network - (435) 259-1063 David Ortman - WA - past Director,NW Office,Friends of the Earth (206) >789-6136 Karen Picket - CA - Bay Area Coalition for Headwaters - (510) 548-3113 Pat Rasmussen - WA - Leavenworth Audubon Adopt-a-Forest - (509) 548-7640 Ruby Lee Rose - CA - Planet, Mind, Soul, Spirit - (415) 868-2767 Susan Schock - NM - Gila Watch - (505) 388-2854 Bryony Schwan - MT - Women's Voices for the Earth - (406) 543-3747 Lewis Seiler - CA - V.O.T.E. Action Committee - (415) 435-2522 Dr. Fraser Shilling, - CA - Sierra Club - (530) 753-1678. Scott Silver - OR - Wild Wilderness - (541) 385-5261 Robin Smith - OH - ex-EPA, NFC Office - (614) 538-9344 Jeff St Clair - OR - CounterPunch - (503) 657-5295 Alan Stein - CA - Fmr Director, Salmon Bay Protective Assn. - (707) >937-4700 Kent Stromsmoe - CA - Forestry Monitoring Project - (925) 372-8619 Charlotte Talberth - NM - Levinson Foundation - (505) 995-8802 Dr. Bron Taylor - WI - Univ of Wisconsin Oshkosh, Professor - (920) >424-7183 Larry Tuttle - OR - Center for Environmental Equity - (503) 221-1683 Ray Vaughan - AL - Environmentalists FOR Nader - (334) 265-6529 Brian Vincent - CA - American Lands Alliance - (530) 265-3506 Paul Watson - WA - Sea Shepherds - (360) 370-5500 Meca Wawona - CA - New Growth Forestry - (707) 462-2114 Tom Weis - CO - Greenfire - (303) 245.8178 Chuck Willer - OR - Coast Range Association - (541) 758.0255 Margaret Hays Young - NY - NYC Sierra Club - (718) 789-0038 _______________________________________________ local-activists mailing list •••@••.••• http://www.rain.org/mailman/listinfo/local-activists ============================================================================ Richard K Moore Wexford, Ireland Citizens for a Democratic Renaissance email: •••@••.••• CDR website & list archives: http://cyberjournal.org content-searchable archive: http://members.xoom.com/centrexnews/ featured article: http://cyberjournal.org/cj/rkm/Whole_Earth_Review/Escaping_the_Matrix.shtml A community will evolve only when the people control their means of communication. -- Frantz Fanon Permission for non-commercial republishing hereby granted - BUT include and observe all restrictions, copyrights, credits, and notices - including this one. ============================================================================ .