============================================================================ Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 13:09:28 -0500 Subject: Re: SUSTAINABILITY & DEVELOPMENT From: Frank Van den Bosch <•••@••.•••> To: <•••@••.•••> Dear Richard, Thanks for your thoughtful response. Until now, we have insisted on honesty and an unflinching eye when we discuss the political machinations of the current system and the economic and ecologic ruin that it brings us. When we use Korten's work to unravel our current problems, we accept the fact that economic interests are the driving force behind the current ethos. Our discussions look far back in history and we agree that previous ages (you say 99.9% of our history) operated on a sustainable level. If we want to discuss methods of better organizing our political systems (societal structures), we can't do that in a vacuum, just as we can't discuss current problems on a strictly political level. If we want to discuss environmental sustainability we must certainly incorporate economic structures. Not necessarily financial economies as we currently understand them, but the economy of the finite availability of "resources" on our planet. Means of production, development or progress are all inextricably linked to these economies. We can talk about social structures coming first, but not if we don't understand and unflinchingly look at the realities, the horrors of alienation and subjugation that have gone hand in glove with our post-agriculture systems. I too believe in localism, and my emphasis on technologies being 'available to all equally' is important in this regard. As Jared Diamond has pointed out, when guns, germs and steel were available to one group they had the power to dominate all other groups. That is also the central message of Daniel Quinn. In his example the technology that empowered a small group to conquer the world, was agriculture. The technologies of map making or printing presses or computers or wind turbines are all tools that can be used by the oppressors. Do you envision a more benign use of technology, or an ethic of non interference with other tribes? A paradigm shift as Fritoj Capra called it 20 years ago? Liberals have been the ameliorators of a corrupt system, but that is a dilemma of current conditions. At other times they may have had a more radical view, but that is neither here nor there. We certainly want to get beyond such trivia, don't we? If production is like velocity, and development is like acceleration how does deceleration fit in? Is feeding those who are now hungry not an acceleration of production? If everyone in China wanted a beer every day, the entire world's production of grain would not suffice. At what speed do we keep the machine of production running? Is status quo the level of sustainability we all seek? Does that hold true for the Ethiopian as well as the Swede or American? Some equalization? Some evening out? Afterall, if the Etiopian is to live better and there is no increase in the current unsustainable level of resource use, somebody else is going to have to give up theirs. I too want to work out how to work out the answers. You opened up this can of worms and I'm glad you did. Do we have the unflinching nerve to pick up that red pill? On a personal note, I will be on your side of the pond for the next two weeks and out of e-mail range. I look forward to your response when I return. Cheerio, Frank V ============ Dear Frank, Nice response. Collaborative. The central point I realized on the quest is that we can't start out by dealing with the world's problems. Many are attempting that, through their life styles or through discussion, or through activism. It isn't working... not that the efforts aren't useful! They are. But they won't achieve their bold objectives. We need to start by dealing with more local things and in the process learn how to develop community spirit/solidarity/perceived-common-interests. At least that's how I see it. As we develop community-ness, we will begin to realize/create our own power/existence as We-The- People. At first we can achieve things locally, and that would be the useful focus of our attention. As the scope of our power (ability to have effect) increases, and as different communities learn to collaborate, then the scope of the problems we can deal with also increases. We can begin to deal with bio-regional issues, etc. At the early stages, probably the most effective thing we can deal with is reducing the divisiveness in our societies. The mutual misunderstandings and blamings that go on, one group with another (races, ideologies, political parties, religions, etc.) We can debate the fine points of global sustainability but we can't do anything about it at this point. I'm trying to learn how to direct my energies toward those things that we can do something about now. I don't mean things like recycling, I mean things like working on the foundations which enable moving on to the next level of effectiveness. --- It is true that Diamond speaks in term of technologies being the prime factors, as in his title. Quinn however has a quite different emphasis. He claims that agriculture was already a known technology, before the advent of the Takers. What created the Takers was a shift in world view from reciprocity (to use Brian Hill's term) to exploitation. After this shift, what had been harmless (nurturing crops) became harmful, and became useable as a strategic weapon. Aboriginal sustainability was the sustainability of innocence. It was not through choice but through habit, perceived necessity, and ignorance of alternatives. In terms of our species, we can say it was the sustainability of childhood. Aboriginal times were the childhood of humanity. The past 10,000 years, I suggest, have been the adolescence of humanity. As a species we have been irresponsible teenagers... drinking and driving, holding up liquor stores, spurning our parents, fighting in gangs, taking drugs, dropping out of school, etc. etc. With our empires and wars and genocides and exploitations we've been 'bad boys and girls'. But we also must admit we've had a bit of fun on the way. To return to sustainability now would not be a return to childhood, it would be an act of adult wisdom. Just as enlightenment is being 'like a child' but not 'being a child'. In other words, we DO have the technologies to exploit, and the knowledge of how to exploit. We can return to sustainability, and to 'brotherhood', only by CHOOSING to do so as a species. The genie cannot be put back in the bottle but it can be tamed. It is not the technologies that need to be removed, but rather our world view which needs to be changed. With a changed world view, we will of course get rid of nuclears and biotechs, and we will stop squandering non-replenishable resources. To do otherwise would then seem obviously insane to us (as it in fact is). --- A comforting observation in all this was expressed eloquently by Rosa Zubizarreta. She was talking about Dynamic Facilitation, and she described it as a 'come as you are' process. I suggest that social transformation is a 'come as you are' affair. It is not necessary for everyone to be 'on board' about sustainability before we begin. As we begin building community, we will find ourselves working with people who don't believe in sustainability, nor other things that we hold sacred. It will be a breakthrough for _us to realize we can work with such people and accomplish worthwhile things. First we need to harness the horse, then attach it to the cart, then we can get serious about what path the cart will follow. have a good European holiday, nasrudin -- ============================================================================ cyberjournal home page: http://cyberjournal.org "Zen of Glbal Transformation" home page: http://www.QuayLargo.com/Transformation/ QuayLargo discussion forum: http://cyberjournal.org/Productions/ShowChat/?ScreenName=ShowThreads cj list archives: http://cyberjournal.org/cj/show_archives/?lists='cj' newslog list archives: http://cyberjournal.org/cj/show_archives/?lists='newslog' cj_open list archives: http://cyberjournal.org/cj/show_archives/?lists='cj_open' subscribe addresses for cj list: •••@••.••• •••@••.••• subscribe addresses for cj_open list: •••@••.••• •••@••.••• ============================================================================